As a side note this is not a rumor of any king, it is simply my wishful thinking/inner fantasy GM talking.
As of late the Toronto Raptors have been playing well. One of the best records since the new year, improved in all aspects of the game, have won some big games, and most importantly have secured their spot in the playoffs (pretty much).
However, although I am a big Raptors fan, I have to be realistic. They will finish fifth (aka will not catch the Celtics or any of the other top 4 east teams), and most likely lose in the first round, faulting in their defense. Thus resulting in Bosh contemplating going to another team. And no matter how much the US media wants to claim they’re sure Bosh is leaving- they have no idea. There has been no indication of it from Bosh himself, and if anything Toronoto’s improved play would indicate otherwise.
Although many factors, many unforeseeable, will impact Bosh’s decision, the one I see as most important is how well the Raptors finish off the season and how deep they go in the playoffs. With my prediction being them losing in the first round, and the biggest reason being lack of defense I think that is where they need to make the most improvement. On top of this I see Turkoglu, although playing better than he has, still struggling with the way this team shares the ball, especially in the playoffs.
Thus my first move would be trading Turkoglu for Trevor Ariza. Though Turkoglu is more talented offensively, the Raptors need defense. Ariza also brings a more experienced slasher and a solid three point shooter. Though some may say his percentages are not good this season, this is because he plays on a Houston team with little star power which results him doing more than he can. On the Lakers he played a perfect role, spot-up threes, energy man, defense. All things the Raptors need. On top of those positives he is also younger than Turkoglu, showing Bosh a brighter future. And lets be honest, Turkoglu hasn’t really produced this season.
So now many would say, what about the things we needed and somewhat got from Turkoglu. Offense, clutch play, a wing ball-handler, playoff experience. This is where the free-agency comes in. By trading for Ariza the Raptors would save money as Turkoglu was paid more, and with a few other Raptors coming off the books at the end of the season, the Raps will have the option to not only resign Bosh, but add another name. The name that will fill all those needs named above, and replace Turkoglu- Manu Ginobili!
Before I get to the fun stuff, I will address the doubts people may have.
1) Houston may very well go for the Turkoglu trade because they will NOT make the playoffs, will NOT have the ability to sign a big name free agent, and the thing they need the most is a facilitator/scorer from the wing. Someone else to run the offfense through, other than A-Brooks. With Turkoglu not being too happy with his role in TO he may even be willing to take a bit of a pay cut to have a big role on a solid team.
2) TO will have more money in the offseason by trading Turk, as well as having Rasho, Amir, and Antoine Wright all free agents, to sign someone like Ginobili.
3) Bry-Co will need to make some big, drastic moves if he wants to ensure Bosh to resign. He needs to show Bosh a bright future. He has done a good start of it this season, however he will need to show Bosh that the Raps can possibly go deep into the playoffs rather than being a mediocre team every year.
4) Ginobili would be willing to sign in TO. There have been rumors that he will not resign with the Spurs, so why wouldn’t he sign in Toronto. A fairly Euro-team, with a superstar in Bosh, a chance to be an East allstar, and most importantly a chance to win another championship. The Spurs are on the downhill, and will most likely want to sign someone younger anyway.
So finally to look at the beauty these couple of moves could bring to the Raps:
The Raps would have everything. A legit superstar-Bosh. Offensive fire-power. Playoff experience. Ball-handling. Deep bench. A tight chemistry with only Ginobili being added. Bargnani and some of the other young guys continously improving. Defense-Ariza, Bargs… Clutch play, and killer instinct- Ginobili. Thus in my opinion making them an East contender, and depending on the development of Bosh and Bargs perhaps even a championship contender.
Check out the lineup: C- Bargnani. PF- Bosh. SF- Ariza. SG- Ginobili. PG- Jack. Bench- Calderon, Derozan, Amir, Evans, Belinelli, Weems…
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February 17, 2010 at 1:33 pm
sigh...
just that. sigh. not that i can speak for morey, but i’d be absolutely flabergasted if, upon hearing that proposal from BC (or you), he didn’t go into a fit of uncontrollable laughter.
geez, maybe you can get him to throw in carl landry & aaron brooks if we sweeten the deal with jose?
February 17, 2010 at 4:11 pm
jvukojev
Not sure why you think its humorous. As I said, it is a fantasy idea that I would like to see happen as a Raps fan. The pieces would be perfect for Toronto, and not so bad for Houston either. The key pieces is what I propose because it is what I care about in being a Raps fan. This doesn’t mean that the trade couldn’t include other players or benefits (money, future draft picks). Perhaps even a three team trade. The deal I set is really not that unrealistic. I proposed all the reasons for it, and all you had to say is sigh. If its just simply your opinion that Ariza is worth more than Turk than maybe say why.
IF that is what you meant, I don’t agree with it either. Currently Turk is not having a good season, but neither is Ariza. His stats are improved but not because hes improved as a player. He has a bigger role and is shooting way more than he should be. His percentages are bad, plain and simple. Turkoglu is far more offensively talented and his size and ok defense making him a better all around player.
But ultimately, the trade is possible. Most likely wont happen, but if there was someone that could pull something like that off, it would be BC. Again, other players, cash, future picks, could all be used. I just didn’t want to get into details of the trade as Im no GM. But for example something like Turk and Weems for Ariza, or Turk and cash, or Turk and a draft pick. It is possible.
So I sigh to your incredibly intellectual, and in depth response. If your gonna act so arrogant, maybe provide something worth reading next time.
February 17, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Wayde
Interesting that you have Jack starting over Calderon; you see that in the long term? I’m not so sure I like Jack as the full time starter over Calderon. What I don’t like about Calderon’s game, is that he sometimes hesitates on the passes, instead of trusting his instincts. But in respect to playing the game solidly and making better decisions, I’d have to say he does that more than Jack does.
Other than that, I don’t really have an issue with your assertion of Turk for Ariza.
February 17, 2010 at 3:48 pm
jvukojev
I understand what your saying, and I agree that Calderon is a better player. I just have him listed as a back up because of the current situation. I cant tell how well he and Jack would fit into future lineups but as of right now he is really beneficial for the backup line. And whether its the turkoglu team now, or with ariza/ginobili fantasy scenario Im talking about I feel that Calderon’s offense would help more with the second unit, while Jacks defense, and simply the fact that he doesnt need the ball in his hands as much would fit better. So its not because of their individual skill, more so with the fit I see from recent success.
But who knows…
February 17, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Wayde
Hmm, so by that assertion, you’re saying the best PG on the team, is best situated on the bench, whereby the second best, is the starter? Should the best be rewarded by playing with the best, and facilitating that way. I mean, we’re talking about apples and oranges when we discuss their game, but I think Calderon is more of a pass first PG, whereby Jack looks for his shot and wants to score more.
I could see that frustrated Bosh when he wants the ball and Jack decides to drive, and I’ve seen him do.
We have an offensive minded Centre, PF and SF (now) and probably should have a past first PG for them, than a “get my own shot” PG.
Just my thoughts though, from a fan prospective…
But I do think they should look to get rid of Turk; we need some defense, and he’s the most expendable at the momeny, with the most value in return.
February 17, 2010 at 4:40 pm
jvukojev
Again I dont necessarily disagree that perhaps Jose would be better as a starter, but as of right now the signs show that Jack fits better. Not sure what your referring to when you mention Bosh being frustrated, I personally haven’t seen it, but maybe you’re right.
As for Jack being a shoot first point guard I agree, especially when hes compared to Jose. But what you have to realize is that just because he has that scorers, aggressive mentality does not mean he shoots alot or is selfish (like TJ used to be). In fact if you look at the stats Jose and Jack play the same minutes and Jose actually shoots more. Jose – 8.46 shots per game, while Jack – 7.7 shots per game.
Jose is a pass first and a very good one at that, but what my point was is that he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Or at least in order to utilise all of his ofensive talent. If he doesn’t get that he actually isn’t of much use because lets be honest he is a very weak defender.
Thus- Jacks defense is useful because the starters don’t need much help at offense with so much ball-needing scorers. While the second unit needs leadership, and control and a point that will get all of them involved and help them. The starters don’t really need much help.
Again I’m not saying Jack is better. He isn’t .
February 17, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Wayde
In that case, I completely agree, Jose is pretty useless without the ball, since his defense is suspect, and Jack will look to create more.
What I meant by Bosh getting frustrated is that times he’s opening calling for the ball, or in a position to make a play, and Jack will ignore and go for his own thing. Not sure if your stats were shot based, or FG’s attempted based, because Jose certainly shoots more than Jack, but Jack drives more for lay-ups than Jose.
All in all, I may be inclined to agree that right now the right fit to start may be Jack because of defense. At the end of the day though, I want my best PG on the floor with my best players; defense can be taught, offense, basketball IQ, and talent cannot, and Jose has all those over Jack.
February 18, 2010 at 12:22 am
Krespino Latters
Meaningless. I may doubt that you understand basketball at all. How can you contend that Turk hasn’t produced this season, the season is not ever yet… Have you incidentally watched the last NBA finals? Do you realise that Turk was the top scorer of Magic in the series against Lakers, and that includes Howard and Rashard and everybody else? And that was only months ago. Can you understand that he was the leader of the team when Magic won a do-or-die playoffs away game when Howard was absent? Does your memory tell you another player in the Raptors squad with NBA finals experience? Think abt those and reply. The beginning of this season was a disaster for Raptors, the team has ranked as the very worst defensively, because of the PG situation obviously, what can Turk do to save a team like that, or how can his game show itself? Why would you need a player of his caliber if you are the worst? Was that part of the “season”, it was. Most of Hedo’s contribution do not reflect into stats. See how Magic suffered until recently because of loss of chemistry after his departure. Hedo is a rare type of player that can make a very special difference if utilised correctly.
February 18, 2010 at 5:58 am
jvukojev
First of all, calm down. Your clearly a die hard Turkoglu fan and are not speaking out of and objective view. You didn’t need to write an essay about Turkoglu, especially since what you wrote doesn’t consist of any legitimate points. I never said Turkoglu is a bad player. To the contrary, I think he is a great player and I agree that what he did with Magic was important and big, and that he was one of their key pieces, probably second most important after Howard.
What I DID say is that he hasn’t produced THIS season. Not with the Magic, and what he did for them. But with the RAPTORS, THIS season. And what I meant by saying that he hasn’t produced is that he is nowhere near as productive as he was with the Magic. Whether this is because of him or because of the Raps system is another argument all together and not my point. But he is not nearly as influential with the Raps as he was for the Magic. Which is clearly proven in your own post. Out of all you had to say about Hedo, the majority of what you wrote was how great he WAS with the MAGIC, not what he does for the Raptors. The fact that you couldn’t come up with anything recent that hes done for the Raps proves exactly what Im saying- not producing! Both the stats tell it (dropped in every category form last few seasons in ORL, and significantly so), as well as the little things stats don’t record (that you speak of) such as his usually good “clutch” play, and playmaking ability. I watch TO games all the time, and as most Raps fans would agree he has not done nearly as much as he can.
And your assertion that the Raps are a horrible team that nothing could help, is the dumbest thing you said. First of all they have a winning record, 29-24, fourth in the East. So how you managed to blame the teams rough patches as the cause of Hedo’s struggles baffles me. Its the players (especially the great ones, which Turkoglu should be) are the ones that make the teams, not visa versa. And the part where you mention how the raps have struggled in the beginning of the season really shows how great your points are. You purposely avoid the fact that they’re good now. You also say that its the PGs fault for some of the Raps struggles, and not Hedo’s. I didn’t say Hedo was to blame for everything, not even close. I simply said that he hasn’t performed as much as people expect and as much as he is paid. And because of this someone esle could possibly be a better fit.
So next time, maybe read what I wrote before you fire back with a biased, ill informed, illogical argument.
March 14, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Krespino
I said your understanding of basketball is doubtful; proof: your prediction that Raptors will finish fifth… In less than one month your vision has been proven to be grossly wrong. We’ll see, the Raptors will finish eighth. If Chicago had cared at all, even eighth spot would not be made.
I am a Magic fan.
What I’m saying is, who are you to judge by half season that Hedo did not perform well this year? Did your other players perform well? The season does not consist of half season. You can not judge a player’s performance without relating to that of the team.
Another tangible point for you: Does your team have an eligible shooting guard who contributes as expected from a SG? Who is the SG, DeRozan? Since you are concerned abt being well informed, look into the stats of your SG as compared with stats of several other teams.
Why is Bosh performing poorly recently? Why Bargnani? Look into the stats of the Philly home game; you would realise that Bosh Bargnani and some others have all had zero free throw attempts. Zero… How often does that happen with a team? What does that tell you? Is that related to Hedo? Apart from defence, offensive effort also lacked. You need to understand that there are many serious problems with the team; like you don’t have a true leader in the team; Bosh does not seem to be a committed leader, possibly because he does not have the willingness to stay in the team. Not me, but probably you are the one being biased, not unable to see facts abt To team.
I repeat, Hedo has a special kind of playing style; the management must have understood that and also decided to utilise that style, before signing him.
Hedo has made the wrong choice with this team obviously, simply because he is surrounded by negative opinion makers like yourself.
Where is your winning team lately…??
March 14, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Ballfan123
Do you read anything you comment on??? Did you read what I wrote in my blog or my reply to your comment? First off my blog was not against Turkoglu personally nor was it about the Raptors struggle this season. It was about a deal that I think would FIT better for the Raptors. Which is exactly what you speak of when you keep talking about Turkoglu not fitting in. Did I once say Turkoglu sucks? Did I say its all his fault they’re underachieving?? Did I say everyone else on the roster is doing their part? NO!
What I did say is that so far this season (obviously I mean so far this season because I can’t tell the future) he has not performed to his expectations and to his ability. As I already said his numbers are down, and even the little things he did with the Magic he isn’t doing in TO. I already said this. And I also already said that it is a possibility that its because of the system. But that does not matter, because my post is about finding a better fit than Turkoglu. Why he is underperforming is not my argument. The fact that his signing clearly didn’t work out with the team is my point, thus the blog about a possible Turkoglu trade. READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE YOU WRITE BACK.
And who am I to judge? Its my blog, so Id be the owner of my own thoughts which I have the freedom to share online. Thats why blogging exists. Im also an NBA fan, a basketball fan, and a Raptors fan with clearly much more knowledge than you on the topic. Thus certainly giving me more right than you to speak of such things. You don’t even read what people write and comment because of your need to defend a player i never attacked.
And how is stating a fact that Turkoglu is underperforming being biased??? LOOK AT HIS STATS AND SAY SOMETHING smart then. And nowhere did I say other things aren’t to be blamed. Of course it’s not all his fault. But he is the one thats underachieved the most compared to what his expectations were!
As a side note, if you had any basketball knowledge yourself you would also know that the Raptors are only about 1 or so games (depending when you see this) behind or in front of the fifth spot! Saying that I have no basketball knowledge because one of my predictions went wrong? First off the season isn’t done yet, secondly if every prediction I made was correct I wouldn’t have basketball knowledge, I’d be a superhero who can tell the future. But yeah, you really proved your point on that one.
Your comments are so stupid that I don’t even know why I bother writing back. I guess its my wish that you’ll someday learn something and perhaps get in the habit of actually arguing against what people write instead of made up arguments you come up with in your own head. So to make things clear one last time, just in case you decide to write something dumb again:
1. Raptors could use a better fit than Turkoglu, especially for the money they are paying him.
2. Not because he is bad, or because he is to blame for all their problems, but because he gets paid over 10 million per year and hes only averaging 12, 4.5, 4.5.
3. For whatever reason, whether it is because he is getting old, or doesn’t like the team. Or because the management or coaching doesn’t fit with his style, he is not performing like he has been and like he should. Thats a fact.
4. If you argue that he is performing or question my assertion that he isn’t there really was no need for me to write any of this because you are clueless.
So for the last time, read what my argument is about before you comment! Please
March 15, 2010 at 1:18 am
Krespino
Jvukojev or Ballfan123, whoever you are, you must see that, in your so many unfounded assertions, bad words and name calling, you are not touching my tangibles : SG position, Bosh’s weakness in leadership, PG problem, lack of team defense, etc.
If you read the article itself, you would see that it is all about Turkoglu, and nobody else. You refer to the team’s weak defense; and your next sentence : “On top of this, I see Turkoglu,… still struggling with the way this team shares the ball…” How and why the connection, nobody knows. The sole purpose of writing the article was obvious; clearly, the article was ABOUT Turkoglu.
You did not even have a moderately productive starting PG in so many games; what ball sharing are you talking abt? The very worst of 30 NBA teams in defense at a certain point, what was it that the rest of the team was achieving and Hedo could not fit in…? Hedo is known for his ballhandling, did you come across that reality?
“As a side note I never said ththee Raptors would finish 5th in the East”
Really? What would this sentence in the article possibly mean in your comprehesion : “They will finish fifth (aka will not catch the Celtics or any of the other top 4 east teamsf )” Strange. I don’t know what is going on here.
It may be your blog, but you should be under basic responsibility to know what you’re talking about; shouldn’t you? I don’t know who authorises ng people to write blogs, but they should reconsider your eligibility.
As for him underperforming, you should look at his stats at the time of writing of the article. He was the team’s third best in points, second best in assists, and third best in rebounds, if I remember correctly. Not too bad, to single him out.
We don’t want to see articles written with bias against particular players. Evaluate players within totality of the team’s performance. Hedo was among our favorite players at Magic. Only this year Van Gundy said he was the man who took the team to NBA finals. So be patient.
March 15, 2010 at 1:40 am
Ballfan123
Fair enough. The name calling was uncalled for, and I apologize. But you did say my blog post is meaningless, which is something I don’t take lightly, especially considering the fact that you continue to disregard the point of my article and come up with your own reasons and ways to argue. Again you disregarded the fact that my article was not about how good the raptors are. Nor was it about how good Hedo can be. It is about the fact that he is underperforming, and would better fit with another team, like the Rockets, and the Raptors could use someone else for the money they pay him. “Underperforming” means he is not performing as much as he should, or usually does (lusly defined). Just because he is the third scorer and rebounder and assist man doesn’t mean he is performing like he should. It means he is a good player- which Ive already stated numerous times. But it doesn’t mean anything when you consider what anyone that knows basketball and follows him or the Raptors expected of him. That is what I mean by underperforming.
And just because I stated that I think the Raps will finish 5th means nothing. ITs prediction. Im not Nastradamus. The fact that your pointing my basketball knowledge to that mistake is evidence that you have no real argument toward the fact that Turkoglu is underperforming and should be traded. And the Raptors could still easily finish 5th or 6th- like you said THE SEASON IS NOT OVER.
And please, since you will most likely write again, explain to me how it is I am biased against particular players? I’ve stated numerous times that Turkoglu is a very good player, and I in fact am a fan. I just think that this season, with the Raptors he has underperformed and should be traded. That’s not anything personal, nor is it bias.